EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

coolkidchaney · Veteran Member

California Approves Gay Marriage Ban (debate !)

Beccawicks · Senior Member

It is the most intolerant and hateful thing I've ever heard of. It was based on the basis of propaganda, which is ridiculous. Prop 8 said nothing about churches or education, but yet all of their misleading commericals were about protecting the children. How can a person vote for something where the first two words are "Eliminating rights..."? I'm disgusted. But thankful for the courts that can fix this.

natamakove · Veteran Member

If there was a voting on prop 8 and people chose to ban it the supreme court can do nothing about it.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Actually they can do alot about it. If the California Supreme Court deems that it is not a valid amendment to the California costitution, then there will be either a special vote or waiting till the next election for either side to put something on the ballot. If the California Supreme Court does deem it is valid, then it is taken to the U.S. Supreme Court and they can deem it unconstitutional (which it is) and there would have to be an amendment to the constitution in order to make Prop 8 constitutional.

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

Regardless of whether or not you agree with gay marraige, taking away rights is the opposite of what America should be about.

Flanny · Senior Member

i believe that california is not yet ready to approve gay marriage and due to all the law suits that may occur with passing gay mariage i believe we need to refine the proposition to include the protection of the churches. I believe it is inevitable that gay marriage will become legalized, its just a matter of time.

Scottster · Senior Member

the bottom line with this subject is that, even if they are homosexual, THEY ARE PEOPLE, they are guaranteed INALIENABLE rights in this country, and if people cant tolerate that, they need to move to a country where that isnt the case!

alliestoom · Senior Member

i am so completely disappointed that this has passed, but the fight is nowhere near being over. all people deserve equal rights, and we won't stop until that is achieved. it's unfair and wrong. i believe that by passing this we have gone a step back in our progress.

:(

krea · Senior Member

the public and majority of the people have spoken. clearly. i think people for gay rights will just have to fight harder and harder it will be a challenege but a necessary one. black rights came through after ALOT of hard work was put into it.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

The thing is that churches were protected. The court ruling that has allowed same sex marriage says, and I quote, "no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs."
So...
Prop 8 was passed on propaganda. Gay Marriage has been legal since May in California. Has the world ended? Did we all suddenly burst into flames? No, we had equality. Eliminating rights is wrong. Forcing one religion onto the government (seeing as some religions allow gay marriage) is wrong.

ginagaunt! · Veteran Member

its definatly a matter of time before gay marriage is passed. i think the most important step before this is passed is to protect the churches .. but common these are people we must give them their rights..

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

the voters have clearly shown what they want

stuart denton

MARISA CELISE TORRES · Veteran Member

i think it is horrible that they banned gay marriage. people should marry who every they want.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Voters also wanted segregation, does that make it right?

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

I completely agree with becca. Propostition 8 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. What i most dislike about proposition 8 is that they used so much propaganda to sway voters by telling them that it'll be taught in schools and that Churches wont be able to refuse to marry same sex couples because of the prop. the prop is 14 words the only thing it states is that from now on only heterosexual married couples will be recognized by the state of california. I just think voting yes was so unamerican and I also think people should just come out and say that they don't like gay people and think they shouldnt be married just because they don't like them, not hide behind the whole "sanctity of marraige" thing. This isn't over yet!

YOitsjvo · Veteran Member

i believe people should have the right to do wat they want.

even if in some religions say its not right. but its the persons choice.

so let them be!

krea · Senior Member

i still stand by saying the voters have chosen what they want. this is the majority rule. but it bothers me because it was such a close call that there is still hope.

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

its a democracy
we should be able to vote for what we want

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

^ agreed. And its not just about marriage, the CHILD has the right to have a Mother and a Father.

-- Edited by Matt. mhm at 18:38, 2008-11-07

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Not if it is unAmerican. Plain and simple. People approved slavery, segregation, and way back in the day the Salem Witch Trials. Nothing should take away people's rights.

And I know a gay couple who has two children. And their children are more well adjusted and awesome than half of the spoiled kids I see around here. The child has the right to a loving family.

-- Edited by Beccawicks at 18:38, 2008-11-07

kb · Senior Member

I personally, thought Prop 8 was wrong. Eventually gay mariage will be legal it will just take some more time

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

The CHILD has the right to have to have two caring parents.
Whether or not they are adopted does not matter.
Having a mother and father has nothing to do with it.

-- Edited by patrickisoverrated at 18:39, 2008-11-07

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

were not kicking all the gay people out, the voters are just saying they dont want gay marriage...

cstair23 · Senior Member

despite the fact that this law was approved by majority rule
it violates minority rights which is as Becca said "unamerican"

the preservation of human rights in this instance outweighs the decision of the majority

krea · Senior Member

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

and relating slavery to gay marriage is pretty wrong.

Zach_V · Senior Member

This just shows the ignorance and stupidy of most people. Homosexuals deserve all the same rights that we have.

jessmontano · Veteran Member

the people of california voted and thats what they voted for.
i dont understand how they arent being treated fairly just because
they dont get a piece of paper that says ur married.
the state recognizes civil unions. just like anything else the people
voted.

rtheisen · Senior Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

well, most people aren't homosexual, so most people will have a dad...

jessmontano · Veteran Member

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

the only reason i'm for gay marriage is because i don't think its fair that gays in a civil union or domestic partnership can have it benefit them for taxes but they don't get recongnized by health insurance as a couple. i personally think that because chruches created marriage they should keep marriage amongst their religion. i don't think that people going against these beliefs shold be aloud to marry in their churches. but that doesn't excuse the fact that these couples though recognized in state taxes are not recognized by health insurance companies or other organizations like them.

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

jessmontano · Veteran Member

insurance companies do recognize civil unions.

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

rtheisen wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

well, most people aren't homosexual, so most people will have a dad...

True! but, what im trying to say is that, if a baby grows up in a house with 2 dads. When he gets to a certain age, the word "mom" will be confusing for him. It's kinda like explaining where a baby comes from.

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

Either way, you can't fault the people who are against prop 8 protesting against it and wanting to take political action to reverse it.
I believe that's covered in the First Amendment.
And Charlie is completely right, banning gay marriage is just like banning interracial marriage.

cstair23 · Senior Member

ok matt
i think the parents themselves would be perfectly capable of explaining what their situation is
that is their responsibility as parents

-- Edited by cstair23 at 18:50, 2008-11-07

Scottster · Senior Member

ok if anyone is bringing religion to the table, then it shouldnt even be involved in the government anyway! separate the church and state!

krea · Senior Member

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

thats definitely true and a very good point. thats why i added they need to work much harder to get their rights

rtheisen · Senior Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

well, most people aren't homosexual, so most people will have a dad...

True! but, what im trying to say is that, if a baby grows up in a house with 2 dads. When he gets to a certain age, the word "mom" will be confusing for him. It's kinda like explaining where a baby comes from.

calculus will be confusing, the birds and the bees will be confusing. Everything is confusing to kids at some point. It wasn't that hard for me to learn that some people are attracted to the same sex. He'll understand because the parents will be smart enough to let him know that not all families look like his

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

well, most people aren't homosexual, so most people will have a dad...

True! but, what im trying to say is that, if a baby grows up in a house with 2 dads. When he gets to a certain age, the word "mom" will be confusing for him. It's kinda like explaining where a baby comes from.

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 18:58, 2008-11-07

jessmontano · Veteran Member

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

krea · Senior Member

and i wish the whole adopting a kid issue would be kept out of it all. i dont see or feel ANY risk whatsoever with these kids having gay parents. they would surely be raised the same and with the same care

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

Flanny · Senior Member

the conversation is only awkward if you make it awkward : )

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

Right, so that means those who voted against prop 8 are entitled to their opinions, and thus have the legal right to protest.

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

True, that's why we had slavery for hundreds of years.

jessmontano · Veteran Member

fabulous_erin wrote:

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

exactly. i personally have nothing against gay people but i do not think that it should recognized as marriage because of my beliefs. what i have been taught is that marriage is between a man && a women. if they wanted to make all "marriages" civil unions and marriage stays within the church then i have no arguements.

krea · Senior Member

patrickisoverrated wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

okay so if the child is 7 months for example, his caring parents is mom and mom. So with in time i guess, the word dad will disappear right?

well, most people aren't homosexual, so most people will have a dad...

True! but, what im trying to say is that, if a baby grows up in a house with 2 dads. When he gets to a certain age, the word "mom" will be confusing for him. It's kinda like explaining where a baby comes from.

that probably wouldnt happen its not that difficult of a concept to understand or be taught.

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 18:58, 2008-11-07

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

ha, well im just saying that an infant deserves a mom and a dad, thats all.