EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

krea · Senior Member

RE: California Approves Gay Marriage Ban (debate !)

jessmontano · Veteran Member

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

True, that's why we had slavery for hundreds of years.

slavery and prop 8 are two different things. && slavery was something very wrong && inhumane.

cstair23 · Senior Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

ha, well im just saying that an infant deserves a mom and a dad, thats all.

matt
what we re saying is that a child deserves a good family that can provide and care for him/her

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

jessmontano wrote:

fabulous_erin wrote:

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

exactly. i personally have nothing against gay people but i do not think that it should recognized as marriage because of my beliefs. what i have been taught is that marriage is between a man && a women. if they wanted to make all "marriages" civil unions and marriage stays within the church then i have no arguements.

are you also agreeing with me that atheists and agnotics should be consiered civil unions as well. because i believe that should be the case. confused

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

If a child is going to have 2 loving moms or 2 loving dads, then i don't think it makes a difference... There are so many kids out there who have a mom and a dad and don't get treated the right way. I don't think an infant "deserves" a mom and a dad, as long as they will be treated right.....

Matt. mhm wrote:

ha, well im just saying that an infant deserves a mom and a dad, thats all.

jessmontano · Veteran Member

krea wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

fabulous_erin wrote:

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

exactly. i personally have nothing against gay people but i do not think that it should recognized as marriage because of my beliefs. what i have been taught is that marriage is between a man && a women. if they wanted to make all "marriages" civil unions and marriage stays within the church then i have no arguements.

cant they just give "domesticated parters" the same rights as a married couple...

yess but i do not think it should be called a marriage.

kb · Senior Member

People could argue that denying some one to marry the one they love is wrong...

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

seriously, dont compare slavery and gay marriage
i havent seen any gay people getting hung for wanting to get married

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

krea wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

fabulous_erin wrote:

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

exactly. i personally have nothing against gay people but i do not think that it should recognized as marriage because of my beliefs. what i have been taught is that marriage is between a man && a women. if they wanted to make all "marriages" civil unions and marriage stays within the church then i have no arguements.

cant they just give "domesticated parters" the same rights as a married couple...

that's exactly what i'm saying. if domestic partnerships had the exact same rights as married couples then i would be against gay marriages because it does go against many people's beliefs.

KSF{Kodies} · Senior Member

i am all for gay rights, and their rights to be together. But when it comes to using the term marriage they need to have there own word for their union. Marriage is a term based in religion, and yes seperation of church and state is what American ideals are based on but instead of the church trying to control state, now its state coming into the church. Gays deserve all of the equal rights and the rights to be happy but by definition cannot become married. I know i will get a lot of harp for this belief and because of the way i voted, but this is how i feel, along with many others. I truly believe that the issues with those who voted YES on 8 was more along the lines of the basis of marriage and not that they dont believe in equal rights.

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

True, that's why we had slavery for hundreds of years.

slavery and prop 8 are two different things. && slavery was something very wrong && inhumane.

How is denying humans basic rights not wrong or inhumane?

jessmontano · Veteran Member

fabulous_erin wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

fabulous_erin wrote:

as far as i've been informed that's not the case. but if it is i still think that gays shouldn't be allowed to be considered "married" nor do i think atheists or agnostics should be allowed to be considered married becasue the churches created to idea of marriage and that's why this has become such a big deal to alot of people. i think that marriage should stay among religions.

exactly. i personally have nothing against gay people but i do not think that it should recognized as marriage because of my beliefs. what i have been taught is that marriage is between a man && a women. if they wanted to make all "marriages" civil unions and marriage stays within the church then i have no arguements.

are you also agreeing with me that atheists and agnotics should be consiered civil unions as well. because i believe that should be the case.

yesss i am agreee with u on that.

Zach_V · Senior Member

It's better to have gay parents than no parents.

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

I also agree with that they should be able to have a civil union.. the way i look at it, two gay people are still going to be together weather its legal or not to get married. so they should at least be allowed to have the benefits of any married couple. They are living and acting like a married couple, and just because they are different then just the "normal" outlook on marriage and couples, they shouldn't be punished for being different. So they should at least be allowed to have the benefits of any married couple.

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

Zach_V wrote:

It's better to have gay parents than no parents.

I AGREE!!!!!! biggrin

YOitsjvo · Veteran Member

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

Zach_V wrote:

It's better to have gay parents than no parents.

EXACTLY!!!! THANK YOU :) :)

i know i would much rather have 2 loving gay parents than no parents at all :)

krea · Senior Member

there will never be a winner or loser to these arguments

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

Codenamelivi wrote:

seriously, dont compare slavery and gay marriage
i havent seen any gay people getting hung for wanting to get married

I wasn't comparing the two, I said that the reason slavery was around for so long is because people "voted" on it and that's why the will of the people isn't always the best solution.

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT!!

what if you aren't religious and don't believe in adam and eve??? confused

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

patrickisoverrated wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

True, that's why we had slavery for hundreds of years.

slavery and prop 8 are two different things. && slavery was something very wrong && inhumane.

How is denying humans basic rights not wrong or inhumane?

If the gay community were getting beat or killed, then this would be different, but dude....its marriage, not slavery.

-- Edited by Matt. mhm at 19:06, 2008-11-07

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

i think its the best solution... i have my opinion and you have yours

Danika · Veteran Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I completely agree with becca. Propostition 8 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. What i most dislike about proposition 8 is that they used so much propaganda to sway voters by telling them that it'll be taught in schools and that Churches wont be able to refuse to marry same sex couples because of the prop. the prop is 14 words the only thing it states is that from now on only heterosexual married couples will be recognized by the state of california. I just think voting yes was so unamerican and I also think people should just come out and say that they don't like gay people and think they shouldnt be married just because they don't like them, not hide behind the whole "sanctity of marraige" thing. This isn't over yet!

saying that ALL people who voted yes on prop 8 just don't like gays is so ignorant! there are many reasons that people voted the way they did. my dad has a gay brother and i know for a fact that he voted yes on prop 8. he doesn't love his brother ANY less he just believes that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. many people who voted yes on prop 8 have gay friends and family, but that doesn't change the way they feel about them.

cstair23 · Senior Member

krea wrote:

there will never be a winner or loser to these arguments

good point
there is no such thing as compromise over moral issues

Zach_V · Senior Member

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

There's a well thought out and original phrase. "adam and steve"

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

i hate it when people use that because not everyone believes in the theory of creation. like me i don't believe in that. sooo thati think is not a justifiable arguement!!!!!

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

kb wrote:

People could argue that denying some one to marry the one they love is wrong...

I think it is... its wrong to not let allow someone to marry if they love eachother.

love is love.

Date: Nov 7, 2008

patrickisoverrated wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

jessmontano wrote:

krea wrote:

voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN

i completely agree. having the right to vote entitles you to vote any
which way you desire.

Well Chris put it pretty good earlier. Majority rule can't violate minority rights.
Just because the people want it doesn't make it right. This prop is similar to bans on interracial marraiges.

but they still voted and people are entitled to there opinions. when you vote u win some && u loose some.

True, that's why we had slavery for hundreds of years.

slavery and prop 8 are two different things. && slavery was something very wrong && inhumane.

How is denying humans basic rights not wrong or inhumane?

I believe he is just referring to the severity, i think we can both agree that the severity of slavery was much greater then that of giving gay's the right to marry.

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

adrianna_mrozek wrote:

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT!!

what if you aren't religious and don't believe in adam and eve???

Then build a bridge and get over it. -jvo

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

the bottom line is that prop 8 is totally wrong!!!!
like are you kidding me
imagine waking up one morning and someone telling you that you can not marry the person you love
seriously? SERIOUSLY?!
and shoot, if i was a baby id want a family i wouldnt care what color religion or sexual preferance they had id want a FAMILY
prop 8 is wrong
equal rights for all not for some.

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

adrianna_mrozek wrote:

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT!!

what if you aren't religious and don't believe in adam and eve???

Then build a bridge and get over it. -jvo

sounds like u don't even think u have a good arguement if that's your only rebutal.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

I'm comparing the "people's approval" of slavery to this. I don't think this is as severe as slavery. (And by the way, people have been killed for being gay. Its just not discussed because they have yet to receive full rights unlike African Americans) However, it is absolutely 100% no argument the same as segregation. Plessy v. Ferguson said that segregation was okay as long as it was "separate but equal". Which is basically what you are saying with marriage and civil unions. Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas ruled that if things are separate then they will never be equal. There you go. A civil union is not a marriage. Separate is NOT equal. A homosexual couple is just as loving and genuine as any heterosexual couple. I don't care what your religion says because as someone who practiced christianity for 13 years of her life, I have seen both sides of this argument and Prop 8 is hypocrisy. "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve"?!?! Can people come up with no better reason than that? I'm all for freedom of religion if it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. Besides there are other religions in this country that are not christianity, which is what the majority of people are, that support and allow gay marriage. What makes Christian beliefs superior to any other belief? I'm okay with whatever you believe and whatever you want to do, if it doesn't affect others personal lives. Its no ones business.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

So the website won't let me edit my post.

But watch this video
Keith Oberman is right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FapFXSoBMaQ

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

Danika wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I completely agree with becca. Propostition 8 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. What i most dislike about proposition 8 is that they used so much propaganda to sway voters by telling them that it'll be taught in schools and that Churches wont be able to refuse to marry same sex couples because of the prop. the prop is 14 words the only thing it states is that from now on only heterosexual married couples will be recognized by the state of california. I just think voting yes was so unamerican and I also think people should just come out and say that they don't like gay people and think they shouldnt be married just because they don't like them, not hide behind the whole "sanctity of marraige" thing. This isn't over yet!

saying that ALL people who voted yes on prop 8 just don't like gays is so ignorant! there are many reasons that people voted the way they did. my dad has a gay brother and i know for a fact that he voted yes on prop 8. he doesn't love his brother ANY less he just believes that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. many people who voted yes on prop 8 have gay friends and family, but that doesn't change the way they feel about them.

hmm in my reply i dont see that i put ANYWHERE that everyone who voted yes is homophobic. all i was saying was that i wish there wasn't so much propoganda on this. and don't ever call me ignorant again.THAAANKS

-- Edited by LauraHernandez17 at 04:28, 2008-11-13

drewtekulve · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

Danika wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I completely agree with becca. Propostition 8 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. What i most dislike about proposition 8 is that they used so much propaganda to sway voters by telling them that it'll be taught in schools and that Churches wont be able to refuse to marry same sex couples because of the prop. the prop is 14 words the only thing it states is that from now on only heterosexual married couples will be recognized by the state of california. I just think voting yes was so unamerican and I also think people should just come out and say that they don't like gay people and think they shouldnt be married just because they don't like them, not hide behind the whole "sanctity of marraige" thing. This isn't over yet!

saying that ALL people who voted yes on prop 8 just don't like gays is so ignorant! there are many reasons that people voted the way they did. my dad has a gay brother and i know for a fact that he voted yes on prop 8. he doesn't love his brother ANY less he just believes that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. many people who voted yes on prop 8 have gay friends and family, but that doesn't change the way they feel about them.

hmm in my reply i dont see that i put ANYWHERE that everyone who voted yes is homophobic. all i was saying was that i wish there wasn't so much propoganda on this. and don't ever call me ignorant again.THAAANKS

-- Edited by LauraHernandez17 at 04:28, 2008-11-13

Yes. you didn't say homophobic, you said "I also think people should just come out and say that they don't like gay people and think they shouldnt be married just because they don't like them". So Danika's right.

I honestly like homosexuals. They are nice people. If i could have voted, i would have still voted yes.

I think the outcry of Yes passing is rather humorous. No offense to anyone or anything, its just that it seems like there was quite the animosity with it passing. I wasn't vehement in anyway against No voters, nor will i ever be to those who do not share the same opinions.

Which goes to say, i am not on the offensive.

(i am a bit late on this debate.)

Oh, and a "voting either way is still american. you cant say voting for what you personally believe is right is UNAMERICAN" So thus, whatever decision you have voted for for prop 8 is American. Please don't say that any governmental issue, whether you agree or disagree, is Unamerican, or specifically in this case: voting yes on prop 8 is unamerican. This is America. Like people said earlier "You win some. You Lose Some". Frankly, it's ignorant, and quite frankly, I wish this Prop 8 stuff will end, and again quite frankly, my arguments haven't provided the retardent this debate needs to stop. My apologies.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 05:59, 2008-11-13

drewtekulve · Senior Member

fabulous_erin wrote:

Matt. mhm wrote:

adrianna_mrozek wrote:

YOitsjvo wrote:

its ADAM and EVE

not

ADAM and STEVE

bullying is not neccesary on this website!

people have there oppinions!

so let it be :]

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT!!

what if you aren't religious and don't believe in adam and eve???

Then build a bridge and get over it. -jvo

sounds like u don't even think u have a good arguement if that's your only rebutal.

he never had a good arguement to begin with lol. Yo J-vo! It's all coo'!

nicholeoli · Veteran Member

i think the election is over, yes on prop 8 passed, and everything is over and done with, now its time to deal with it and move on

Flanny · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

the bottom line is that prop 8 is totally wrong!!!!
like are you kidding me
imagine waking up one morning and someone telling you that you can not marry the person you love
seriously? SERIOUSLY?!
and shoot, if i was a baby id want a family i wouldnt care what color religion or sexual preferance they had id want a FAMILY
prop 8 is wrong
equal rights for all not for some.

if someone told me i couldn't marry the person i loved it wouldn't be the end of the world, because all that matters is that you love that person you don't need a piece of paper or marriage lisence to tell you that. biggrin

drewtekulve · Senior Member

Flanny wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

the bottom line is that prop 8 is totally wrong!!!!
like are you kidding me
imagine waking up one morning and someone telling you that you can not marry the person you love
seriously? SERIOUSLY?!
and shoot, if i was a baby id want a family i wouldnt care what color religion or sexual preferance they had id want a FAMILY
prop 8 is wrong
equal rights for all not for some.

I love my sister. I love my dog. And i don't think i would wanna marry them, to be honest...

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 18:54, 2008-11-14

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Incest and beastiality are not coming next. First of all, marriage has to be has to be a concensus between two people. Animals can't sign a contract. Incest is dangerous because its usually related to sexual abuse and if your sister gets pregnant their could be a seriously disabled child. Its a different type of love, and you know it. There is family love and friend love and then the one person you want to be with love. As for those who think, well I don't need a piece of paper, yes, well at least you have the right to get that piece of paper. We're teenagers, marriage isn't necessarily a priority for us right now. But everyone has the right to have that opportunity. Period.

drewtekulve · Senior Member

Beccawicks wrote:

Incest and beastiality are not coming next. First of all, marriage has to be has to be a concensus between two people. Animals can't sign a contract. Incest is dangerous because its usually related to sexual abuse and if your sister gets pregnant their could be a seriously disabled child. Its a different type of love, and you know it. There is family love and friend love and then the one person you want to be with love. As for those who think, well I don't need a piece of paper, yes, well at least you have the right to get that piece of paper. We're teenagers, marriage isn't necessarily a priority for us right now. But everyone has the right to have that opportunity. Period.

What if animals could talk?
But then we would have already entered... THE TWILIGHT ZONE!
DUN DUN DUN!

davidtvelasco · Veteran Member

do da do dee do da do dee

JeremyNeff · Veteran Member

dah dee dah day

rtheisen · Senior Member

Beccawicks wrote:

It is the most intolerant and hateful thing I've ever heard of. It was based on the basis of propaganda, which is ridiculous. Prop 8 said nothing about churches or education, but yet all of their misleading commericals were about protecting the children. How can a person vote for something where the first two words are "Eliminating rights..."? I'm disgusted. But thankful for the courts that can fix this.

So you never heard of the Holocaust? Or the Armenian genocide?