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Post Info TOPIC: Recession or Depression?


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Recession or Depression?


I know that my group is no longer covering the United States, but I found this article to be extremely interesting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_bi_ge/the_d_word



WASHINGTON A Depression doesn't have to be Great bread lines, rampant unemployment, a wipeout in the stock market. The economy can sink into a milder depression, the kind spelled with a lowercase "d."

And it may be happening now.

The trouble is, unlike recessions, which are easy to define, there are no firm rules for what makes a depression. Everyone at least seems to agree there hasn't been one since the epic hardship of the 1930s.

But with each new hard-times headline, most recently an alarming economic contraction of 6.2 percent in the fourth quarter, it seems more likely that the next depression is on its way.

"We're probably in a depression now. But it's not going to be acknowledged until years go by. Because you have to see it behind you," said Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland.

No one disputes that the current economic downturn qualifies as a recession. Recessions have two handy definitions, both in effect now two straight quarters of economic contraction, or when the National Bureau of Economic Research makes the call.

Declaring a depression is much trickier.

By one definition, it's a downturn of three years or more with a 10 percent drop in economic output and unemployment above 10 percent. The current downturn doesn't qualify yet: 15 months old and 7.6 percent unemployment. But both unemployment and the 6.2 percent contraction for late last year could easily worsen.

Another definition says a depression is a sustained recession during which the populace has to dispose of tangible assets to pay for everyday living. For some families, that's happening now.

Morici says a depression is a recession that "does not self-correct" because of fundamental structural problems in the economy, such as broken banks or a huge trade deficit.

Or maybe a depression is whatever corporate America says it is. Tony James, president of private equity firm Blackstone, called this downturn a depression during an earnings conference call last week.

The Great Depression retains the heavyweight crown. Unemployment peaked at more than 25 percent. From 1929 to 1933, the economy shrank 27 percent. The stock market lost 90 percent of its value from boom to bust.

And while last year in the stock market was the worst since 1931, the Dow Jones industrials would have to fall about 5,000 more points to approach what happened in the Depression.

Few economists expect this downturn will be the sequel. But nobody knows for sure, and nobody can say when or whether the downturn may deepen from a recession to a depression.

In his prime-time address to Congress last week, President Barack Obama acknowledged "difficult and trying times" but sought to rally the nation with an upbeat vow that "we will rebuild, we will recover."

The next day, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told the House Financial Services Committee that the "recession is serious, financial conditions remain difficult." He held out a best-case hope that it might end later this year, with "full recovery" in two to three years.

Despite the tempered optimism, the economic outlook remains grim. Consumer confidence has fallen off the table, stocks are at 12-year lows, layoffs come by the tens of thousands, and credit remains tight.

The current downturn has many of the 1930s characteristics, including being primed by big stock market and real estate booms that turned to busts, said Allen Sinai, founder of Boston-area consulting firm Decision Economics.

Policymakers and economists note there are safeguards in place that weren't there in the 1930s: deposit insurance, unemployment insurance and an ability by the government to hurl trillions of dollars at the problem, even if it means printing money.

Before the 1930s, any serious economic downturn was called a depression. The term "recession" didn't come into common use until "depression" became burdened by memories of the 1930s, said Robert McElvaine, a history professor at Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss.

Most postwar U.S. recessions have come after the Fed has increased interest rates to cool down rapid economic growth and inflation. Later, the Fed lowers rates and helps restart the economy, with the housing and auto sectors both sensitive to interest rates leading the way.

This time is different: As Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said, "Our housing and auto sectors are leading us not out of recession, but into it."

What's more, the Fed no longer has the ability to kick-start recovery by lowering interest rates. The central bank has already effectively lowered the short-term rates it controls to zero.

And there are no guarantees the massive economic stimulus package and series of bank bailouts will stave off a nightmare recession, or worse.

Today's economic indicators don't project a depression. But Banerji is cautious. Economic data in 1929 didn't show that the stock market crash was about to lead to years of economic misery, either.

"It did not look like the kind of plunge that would be a depression until after the recession began," Banerji said. "The Great Depression didn't start out as a depression. It started out as a recession."

Today's recession is already longer than all but two of the downturns since World War II. But for now, public officials are being extremely cautious about the D-word. Alfred Kahn, a top economic adviser to President Carter, learned that lesson in 1978 when he warned that rampaging inflation might lead to a recession or even "deep depression."

 

 

Even though I abridged it a bit, I want to know what your guys' opinions are on this.

Do you think we're headed for a 'd'epression, or just a worsening recession?



-- Edited by KW00D at 02:12, 2009-03-03

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Karen Lozano :]


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I think were headed for a depression, its going to get worse before it gets better. Yes, We are having bail outs left and right, but i feel like these are temporary fixes for an even bigger problem. Eventually the money will run out, and we will be back at square One with more debt unless we start fixing the bigger problems first.

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Lauren, I absolutely agree. I think that President Obama should be more wary about how he says things, because once he let's us down, people are going to be PISSEDDD
hahahaha


Just choose your words more wisely, Barack ;]

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Karen Lozano :]


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Barrak says Yes'm.

Its too bad that Bush was a total idiot and didnt prepare for any of this. He set us up for depression and didnt see it coming. But I do, Lauren does. Maybe we should have taken over his job?

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On the Today show this morning they said that we are probably in a depression though it is nowhere near and probably will never get to the Great Depression. They said just because we are not as bad as the Great Depression does not mean we are not in a depression.

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Brittany Marshburn


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Personally I think that to call this a depression is a bit of a stretch, but then again that's what this whole article is about.
Trying to figure out how badly an economy has to be before it is considered a depression.



And although I didn't quite agree with all of [former] President Bush's policies and his actions, I think he did the best he could with what he had. Yes he was the leader of the Free World, and the most powerful man on the planet, but how often have we ever been brutally attacked without legitimate justification? Once, Maybe? I think he handled the situation with as much sanity as he possibly could. And yeah, we're in a really bad state now, but even Barack himself has said we'll get worse before we get better.
The question now, is how much worse will we become?

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Karen Lozano :]
Bam


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I think that it's a recession heading towards a depression but hopefully the stimulus bill will help all that but if it doesn't then we might be heding for another great depression.

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By : DOMINIC


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i didnt agree with bush and now we are heading into a depression and we were oput there by someone who didnt do there all in their job

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We have not even gotten near the numbers of the 70's depression which had unemployment at over 12%+  We had huge bailouts for car companies and banks and many others back then and just like now didn't work. I know I sound like a broken record but really look at reganomics simple and hard and you will see that it is the only was so us out of a recession/depression with the defeict we hard. He cut taxes descreased the size of gonvernment and great over 21 million jobs in just 6 years. Revenue did not drop even though were we uping out war machine to beat the USSR.






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It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. 
Samuel Adams 

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